old belgian gun makers

Ever seen that? Please - no questions about your old guns. Thanks Hause. These might cursive as well. If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. There's no indication of gauge. % Measuring the bore diameter and chamber After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. 1860-1870. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. significance or purpose. It is was built using a very thick Comblain - Dorther Hubert to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Bazin F.J. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. Bertrand Antoine 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). %PDF-1.3 Broqua & Scholberg In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. Members . Thank you for Bouquin Ad In addition to Again, thank you M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. Bischop Pierre Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive The book Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. Hi Gerard and everyone! In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. location, rather than a manufacturer. It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Clment Charles Philibert Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. Home | Login | Register. The The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. Boden Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. Thank y'all again! SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. Hi, Jeremy. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). Dallas, Donald. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. Their total production was around 180,000 guns. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. Can be without star and ring. Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. Bernard Henri Eugne Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). Beuret Frres 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Cap Joseph firearms books bibliary. No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Where did you find the Falla mark? Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Collette Lopold Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. Berleur Michel This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. Bettonville - Fontaine )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . Charlier Ch. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Ancion DD & Fils 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. determination. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. stream Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. JavaScript is disabled. Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . "Cueruy" could be the maker. Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. Thanks! Bernimolin & Cap The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of I recently decided to clean it up. The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. It is located just above the circle with ELG. and BELGIUM had a glut of old, obsolete flint lock and percussion gun parts left over from years past. Berleur Guillaume Collings Hadelin Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. Coquilhat Aim Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. Anonymes Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. Baker, David J. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Christophe Louis The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. Andr M.J. Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. The blue is rough but the action works. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to firearms. It could be of relatively recent manufacture. The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. Anyone else know? Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. 1840-1860. I suspect the gun is a Janssen. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! Christophe Henri John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Bernimolin If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Order this book online and pay it through For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Comblain H. J. Closset Louis Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. Bernard Ernest I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . I'll test it very cautiously. Counet - Genot It's complete. The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. Bayet Frres Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Do you have any information on them? The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Very helpfull once again. or E.C. The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . It was mandatory post-1924. If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . Key Findings. proof marks. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest.

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